I Hate Democrats!

Dirk Diggler's picture

I hate Democrats. I don't want to hear another effing word from Democrats complaining about the war or the lack of health care or the big oil companies or torture or any other stupid-ass complaint Democrats have about our government.

NH Primary Results
In yesterday's primary the only two candidates who are convincingly anti-war got 1% of the vote. Kucinich got 3,845 votes and Gravel got 397 votes. Are you kidding me? To all registered Dems, please STFU from now on. I just don't want to hear it.

Dems: You overwhelmingly cast your votes for Hillary Clinton (110,550). The same Hillary Clinton who voted for us to get into this war. The same Hillary Clinton who didn't bother to read the NIE before voting to go to war over Saddam's non-existent WMDs. The same Hillary Clinton who will not apologize and admit a mistake for that vote. The same Hillary Clinton who just recently cast a vote to classify Iran's Republican Guard as a terrorist organization (which is just another gold plated invitation for Bush to start another war).

I can't blame it all on NH Dems. I have to take part of the blame. Although, not a registered Dem, I have helped in their elections in the past six years. I now live in NY and we've re-elected Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer to the Senate who both voted for the Iraq war.

Sorry for the rant. I have been absolutely distraught all day long. I can't understand the group think herd mentality that makes people forget their anger and complaints and vote for the same shitty leaders that gave us this mess to begin with.

I'm distraught and frustrated. And I don't know what to do about it. Where am I gonna go? The only people I hate more than the Democrats are Republicans.

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Bert Chadick's picture

Waiting for Perot

Oh grow up. Jeezus H. Christ on a crutch. So it's going to be if you don't get mr perfect candidate you are going to vote, what, Green? Last time you folks did that you put Jr. in the White House, and sent Gore in to the wilderness. Is there anyone where who can defend a 2000 vote for Nader? OK Hillary isn't perfect. I get it. She is electable and better than any of the Rethugs.

Third parties can be nothing but spoilers in our system, and we aren't going to change any time soon. There is something about the makeup of billionaires that makes them think that they are what the citizens are pining away for. Bloomberg will probably pull a Perot on us, and with a substantial Green defection will usher in the Hickerbee theocracy.

JJR's picture

Kucinich last time, Edwards maybe this time.

I voted for Denis Kucinich in the Texas Primary last go round, and plan to vote for Edwards if he makes it, stays in thru the Texas primary. If he doesn't, I may vote for Obama. I will NOT vote for Hillary under any circumstances.

Though I'm still tempted to cross over and vote for RP in the Republican primary in TX, just to keep things stirred up on the other side.

SteveC's picture

Blame our election method.

Until we have a Condorcet or an instant runoff election method this is what you're going to get. Complaining about the voters misses the mark completely. The election system we have makes it zero surprise that this would happen, unless you don't understand election methods.

Dirk Diggler's picture

Irrationality is the norm

I'm left scratching my head at these comments. I have no idea why I should blame the system and not the voter. If you care to elaborate, I will listen. I can't guarantee that I will agree.

Complaining about the voters misses the mark completely.

I believe people are responsible for keeping themselves informed. If knuckleheads only buy into what the mass media spoonfeeds them, it's their fault. Period. There is good information and good sources out there, you just have to look. Don't expect a corporate owned media company to have your best interest at heart. They are thinking about their profits. If people too lazy to understand how the world works, that does not make them innocent.

Until we have a Condorcet or an instant runoff election method this is what you're going to get.

I looked up "Condorcet" because I had no idea what you meant and I found some info on the Maquis de Condorcet (whom I liked as a philosopher) and the voting method known as the Condorcet. Sounds like a pretty good idea and worth considering, but I still can't blame the results on the methodology.

I think what you are getting at is that if we had to choose any one of the other Dems vs Hillary, Hillary would lose? I'm not sure that's true. I think Obama or Edwards would probably beat Hillary head-to-head if voters had to choose only A or B, but I'm not sure about the others. That being the case, I still blame the voters. I think Hillary is the worst possible candidate for the Dems, yet she recieved the most votes. That means people are stupid.

Unfortunately, this is nothing new. After all, we live in a world governed by superstition. Irrationality is the norm. It's sad to say, but rational thinkers like you and I are the abnormal ones.

SteveC's picture

Well, from your first

Well, from your first paragraph, I figured that's a good match for a guy like Kucinich. With our current election method, voting for Kucinich would amount to the same thing as abstaining altogether. But if you're complaining that one of the other candidates pretty evenly matched with Hillary to begin with didn't win, as it seems you are (Obama and Edwards), well then, you have a point, and it was me who was off the mark.

The problem with our election method, (and I guess it's a pet peeve of mine, as I often find myself unable to vote for my first choice) is that it only allows you to specify a preference for one candidate, and you cannot specify any preference among the remaining candidates, though you may well have strong preferences among them. This is a very strong disincentive to vote for anyone perceived to be a somewhat unpopular candidate, even though this person might well be one's personal first choice (e.g. Kucinich, Nader, Ross Perot, and the like -- anyone other than the two top-ranked candidates).

Unfortunately, the mathematicians hadn't gotten around to thinking much about election methods much prior to our Constitution having been written, and the various election methods and their advantages and disadvantages are still not very well known.

If that kind of thing interests you, you might also look up Arrow's impossibility theorem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow's_impossibility_theorem

Lance Thruster's picture

Vote fraud

Yes, I too, am frustrated with many Dems but primaries can be stolen in the same way as regular elections. It seems Rethuglicans are happy to promote the Hil-bot (as seen with FOX after Iowa) in order that they might energize their own base so that they can steal a general election again by keeping things relaticvely close.

emkay's picture

Not that...

...I believe everything I read on Teh Internets, but back before shrubco stole the last election, it was going around pretty frequently in many leftist quarters that the Clintons (or DLC, same thing) were working behind the scenes to sabotage any Dem candidates that looked like they may have a shot at the Presidency, for the express purpose of getting bush elected for a second term, figgering he'd screw things up so badly and generate so much hatred Hillary would be a shoe-in this time around. They got the first part of it right, I hope they're wrong about the second.

And there has been as much talk that the right wingnuts were (still are) definitely hoping Hillary would get it, simply because people like Flush Limpballs could get the abse so fired up against her any rethuglican would be almost guaranteed. Aside from vote rigging I mean. hehehe.

Todd's picture

Corporatocracy doesn't care who's in charge

While I lean towards Edwards, his current message is very different from how he voted in the Senate. Makes you wonder if he's the real thing. Being a cynic, I don't trust him any more than the others, but I hope his message resonates enough that the average American realizes that the military industrial complex and the capitalist wage slavery system is rigged.

Maybe America needs it's own Zapatistas.

emkay's picture

Don't hold back Dirk...

Tell us how you feel! I logged on here and read your post only minutes after it was posted, and there were no comments yet. I came back a second time...no comments. I just didn't know how to respond. Reading it yet again, and finding the several other comments above has helped me to collect myself a bit.But mostly only for my own rant.

I share your frustration and anger, yet at the same time I'm simply discouraged to the point of apathy and catalepsy over the whole thing,if that makes sense. Not only the stupid election shit we've been subjected to for months, but the direction our country has taken, the lack of accountability or confrontation over the many abuses we and our Constitution has suffered at the hands of these war criminals. And then there's the stupid public that votes for people based on the shallowest and most uninformed basis, and these are the 'leaders' that will have such vast and frightening control over our lives and country (and world events).

I'm a registered Independent, but truth be told I've never voted for a Republican in my life (nor will I), but that said, I refuse to be called a Democrat. I have voted for Perot, and Nader, and I've voted Green when the opportunity presents itself (far too infrequently). Part of it is my independent and anarchistic leanings, part of it is that I don't vote for a party, I vote for a person. A person I feel will represent my interests as a proud and unapologetic liberal / progressive. With a streak of civil libertarian (small 'L'). And socialism. And anarchism, to some extent.

All that said, I've been very discouraged with the field this time around. Kucinich or Gravel would get a nod from me. I will not vote for Hillary or Oh Bummer. I probably wouldn't vote for Edwards in spite of his born again Populism, but if my choice was strictly limited to the three, I could choke down Edwards, maybe. Only in the sense of 'the least evil', but I stopped voting on that basis years ago. It's been 'vote my conscience' for many years.

I'm just rambling and venting here. I can't contribute much to the discussion except my own little rant. But to OGeorge's point above, first, I won't concede that we 'elected' shrub in the first place, as the case has been made to my satisfaction both elections were stolen by various means and Demo inaction to challenge the outcomes. But the real point I wanted to make (and addressing Dirk's rant more directly) was that the same 'majority' that 'elected' shrub are probably the same crowd of idiots (they breed!) that still thought Saddam was behind 911, and other right wing lies and spin. And the same mindset that ignore Clinton's record and vote for her because 'she's a woman', or because she 'showed her human side' with her crocodile tears, which has made more headlines than all her transgressions against a progressive or Demo agenda. Or at least what the Dems used to stand for.

IMHO, what we got now is two arms of one military-industrial-corporate-fascist system--with a touch of theocracy.

I don't care to debate any of the 'Nader gave the election to Bush' crowd, so I won't be responding should things go that way. Just had to let it out, Cap'n!

Dirk Diggler's picture

ABC Coalition

Thanks for empathizing. I feel better today. I share many of your ism's. One of those is optimism. Hopefully, NH was a fluke and the process will eventually separate the wheat from chaff. Last week Biden and Dodd dropped out of the race and today Richardson is supposed to announce his withdrawl. Maybe with a more narrow field the ABC(Anyone But Clinton) coalition can do better.

Dirk

Anonymous User's picture

I followed DS link to here.

I agree with you. I hate Democrats, too. They whine at full throttle and continue to elect people who don't like them and don't intend to legislate in their favor. If this wasn't my country, too; I'd delight in them getting what they keep begging for.

OGeorge's picture

I keep reminding myself...

That we ARE the country that elected George Bush twice. I don't believe that could have happened anywhere else in the Western World. 225 years ago as the founders were considering the constitution, the very best minds on earth, while certainly not perfect people, indeed people of their time, were working out the ideas that we take as basic principles today. Those minds have moved on. The best and brightest are no longer in American politics. I'm not sure exactly who these people we have to choose from are, but they are not anyone I will proudly call my leader. I'm very glad I'm an old man, I won't have to remember my cowardice in the 60's and 70's too much longer. I did some work, but I should have done much more.

AtheistUnderMask's picture

You may be vindicated as

You may be vindicated as there is a growing amount of evidence for vote fraud. Hilary won in counties that had the easily hacked Diebold machines, for instance.

Dirk Diggler's picture

New Hampshire has no touchscreen voting. None.

AUM-

You are entitled to your own thoughts and opinions, but I would like everyone here to employ the same amount of skepticism towards conspiracy theories as we do about supernatural sky daddies. I looked around the interwebs and saw a few whispers of possible election tampering, but nothing more than rumors. No evidence. No actual witnesses.

Would you be able to send me a link from where you heard this?

Today, I saw Kos had a post about it as well titled "Enough with the Diebold Hacked the NH primary." That pretty much sums up my opinions on the subject as well. The first line of the post is "New Hampshire has no touchscreen voting. None." 'Nuff said.

I have calmed down a little and want to say congratulations to Hillary and her supporters. And I will be supporting her if she wins the primary. However, I strongly disagree that she would be a good candidate to lead this nation relative to the other Dem candidates.

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